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arkarian
2009-06-21 06:00:04 pm
red chamber dream
does unmorphing after a bj still work like normal? if it does i can't see early sj not being possible.
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-21 06:38:27 pm
unmorphing seems to be the same. The movement of the morphball in the air feels slower but that might be the lag of the wiimote or I just suck at this trick I don't know.
Oliver
2009-06-21 07:17:22 pm
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
I think a perfect fight with no x-ray is just as fast as with if the ghosts cooperate.

Right again. Also, the normal difficulty is now easier than the gamecube version, so maybe 1 super missile is enough for each ghost.
Baby Sheegoth
2009-06-21 08:20:07 pm
Quote from arkarian:
doesn't ibbf require sws? were they not fixed in this version?

They were not for some odd reason.
UchihaSasuke
2009-06-22 03:28:56 am
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
from the talk about the early PB in chozo ruins, i guess it is obtained with IS. where's the spot for it?
i bet the main plaza SW works to get to it too but it requires SJ and varia since that room has extreme heat.

Quote from StefanvanDijke:

Question to UchihaSasuke. Did you get the room where the pirate breaks the glass in phendrana to work? What happens to me is that the pirate breaks through later than he would in the gamcube version and as soon as I activate the metroid cutscene the door towards Elder locks and I have to reload the room again to get rid of this lock. Was wondering if you had the same problem?


i had the same problem. i retried that section 3 times but the lock appeared always. i didn't bother to try something else because i wasn't playing for speed when i did the test run.

Quote from Oliver:
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
I think a perfect fight with no x-ray is just as fast as with if the ghosts cooperate.

Right again. Also, the normal difficulty is now easier than the gamecube version, so maybe 1 super missile is enough for each ghost.

yes, 1 super missile alone kills the ghosts in normal. i've done it multiple times.

Quote from arkarian:
bombs don't work the same as in the gamecube versions. can read some of the previous posts in this topic for more.

doesn't ibbf require sws? were they not fixed in this version?

the devs changed very little surprisingly. they just focused in the controls and ball physics and didn't bother with the enviorment.
Mista_Smegheneghan
2009-06-22 03:36:09 am
Ready to internet!
Wait, the Wiimake's easier? Why'd they do that?
StefanvanDijke
StefanvanDijke
Edit history:
StefanvanDijke: 2009-06-22 07:04:27 am
2009-06-22 06:56:30 am
Yes thats disapointing. Its probably because gaming in general is getting easier these days and they are afraid people will complain that games are getting too hard. Unfortunatly for the hardcore gamer there is not an extra harder mode. But since they are rare they don't care about that.

And I have been playing on normal all the time but a speedrun should be on easy for sure. I think its faster to pick up x-ray the second time so you already have the main powerbomb and don't have to refill 2 times from the enemy in life grove. Also since you already have supers for the ghosts it will be very easy to kill them without x-ray. 2 can be killed from the beginning and the third one will attack after that anyway.

Quote from UchihaSasuke:
from the talk about the early PB in chozo ruins, i guess it is obtained with IS. where's the spot for it?
i bet the main plaza SW works to get to it too but it requires SJ and varia since that room has extreme heat.


Oliver has a video of the magma pool IS in his filefront acount. I don't know how to get the powerbomb from a secret world. I'm going to try to ceiling warp in behind the wall and obtain the powerbomb. It could be faster than the IS way and easier since you can just save in gathering hall before the PB segment. Has anybody ever done this SWing to the powerbomb?
Oliver
2009-06-22 06:59:37 am
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
This might confirm powerbombs right after morphball bombs. Could be very usefull in a run.


I see at least one use for it : killing Mama Sheegoth in one hit. Could be fun :).
However, magma pool is heated, so you have to start IS a few rooms before. The closer I got was Gathering Hall.
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-22 07:07:41 am
Going to try to pick up the powerbomb after bombs today. It depends on if I can get IS from gathering hall and escape the wall with bombs or springball
Oliver
2009-06-22 07:12:18 am
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
Oliver has a video of the magma pool IS in his filefront acount. I don't know how to get the powerbomb from a secret world. I'm going to try to ceiling warp in behind the wall and obtain the powerbomb. It could be faster than the IS way and easier since you can just save in gathering hall before the PB segment. Has anybody ever done this SWing to the powerbomb?


EDIT :

I've done it once. But in the gamecube version, you can't blow out the wall from the inside. You're trapped inside the PB expansion's place. It could be different in the Wiimake, though I doubt it. Also, IIRC, you can't do ceiling warp. You have to stick to one wall and boost and unmorph until you get through it.

The good thing about this wallcrawl (if it could be done) is that you don't get damaged by heat because you're in an erroneously loaded room.
Baby Sheegoth
2009-06-22 08:09:43 am
Just us the IS inside magma pool stefan.
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-22 08:46:19 am
thats what I have been doing. I don't think the wallcrawl is worth it and as you mentioned Oliver, you're stuck anyway. I found out the hard way that the ceiling warp didn't work. The IS segment might be a segment from gathering hall to powerbomb and back to gathering hall. The IS in magma pool is very random and in the wii version it works a bit differently but there might be a way to get it consistanly. In a speedrun you should get it in the wave beam segment eventually.
Oliver
2009-06-22 01:09:49 pm
Do you confirm that you're stuck in the wii version too ? You still can't destroy the wall ?
StefanvanDijke
StefanvanDijke
Edit history:
StefanvanDijke: 2009-06-23 09:32:30 am
2009-06-22 06:31:38 pm
No I can't confirm but I'm not going to try. I tried ceiling warp but couldn't get it then I jumped against the wall but got stuck so I had to reset. I don't feel like trying anymore as you said you can't distroy the wall and I don't believe that would be different in this version. Also, I hate SWs and it would be a different catagory too.

Edit: I made  a more detailed route. I think I'm going to try a test run on this and post the segments. I anyone objects let me know. It might be unfair to people who can't buy the game yet.

Segment 1

• To parasite Queen

Segment 2

• Frigate Escape

Segment 3

• Hive Mecha for missles
• Energy Tank in Transport Access North
• Save at Ruined Nursery

Segment 4

• Morphball
• Missile Expansion in Watery Hall Access
• Charge Beam
• Save at Gathering Hall

Segment 5

• Morphball Bombs
• Solve Energy Core puzzle
• Varia Suit
• Save at Burning Trail

Segment 6

• Artifact of Nature
• Energy Tank in Transport Tunnel A
• Boost Ball
• Missile Expansion in Transport Tunnel B
• Space Jump
• Save at Landing Site

Segment 7

• Wave Beam
• Save at Gathering Hall

Segment 8

• Early Power Bomb in Magma Pool
• Save at Gathering Hall

Segment 9

• BSJ in Furnace
• Solve Hall of the Elders without Spider Ball
• Scan the symbol to open the force field
• Drain Reflecting Pool
• Ice Beam
• Save at Reflecting Pool

Segment 10

• DBJ over the bars in Great Tree Hall
• Main Quarry to Waste Disposal
• Use Early Powerbomb
• Grapple Beam
• Missile Expansion in Elite Control Access
• Climb Elite Control
• Main Power Bomb
• Save at Central Dynamo

Segment 11

• Climb Phazon Processing Center
• Climb Geothermal Core Without Spider Ball
• Plasma Beam
• Save near Magmoor Workstation

Segment 12

• Artifact of Elder
• Jump in front of door to skip the fight with the Pirates
• Fall down observatory and solve Puzzle
• Super Missiles
• Skip Pirates in Control Tower
• Thermal Visor
• Save at Frost Cave

Segment 13

• Artifact of Spirit
• Gravity Suit
• Save near Magmoor Workstation

Segment 14

• Spider Ball
• Artifact of Sun
• Artifact of Strength
• Power Bomb Expansion
• Artifact of Lifegiver
• Artifact of Wild
• Save at Gathering Hall

Segment 15

• Artifact of World
• Missile Expansion in Life Grove Tunnel
• X-Ray Visor
• Artifact of Chozo
• Save at Main Quarry

Segment 16

• Artifact of Warrior
• Save at Central Dynamo

Segment 17

• To Metroid Quarintine B

Segment 18

• Phazon Suit
• Artifact of Newborn
• Energy Tank after Omega Pirate
• Climb Phazon Processing Center
• Save at landing Site

Segment 19

• Artifact of Truth
• Meta Ridley

Segment 20

• Metroid Prime
Oliver
2009-06-23 11:38:46 am
A few thoughts :
I wanted to remind you that there's a way to avoid the beetles fight before morph ball, even without space jump.
There are version differences that I'm not aware of :
- drain reflecting pool ?
- solve observatory before getting super missiles ?
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-23 12:07:05 pm
Quote from Oliver:
A few thoughts :
I wanted to remind you that there's a way to avoid the beetles fight before morph ball, even without space jump.


Yeh, the ghetto from the half pipe you mean. I have been trying it everytime I get to this part, ghetto's are still possible but it also involved an L-jump for more distance.



Quote:
There are version differences that I'm not aware of :
- drain reflecting pool ?


Can't jump from the enemy in this room, and ghettoing from the statue doesn't work either.

Quote:
- solve observatory before getting super missiles ?


Well, I can get the supers before lowering the platform but I fall down afterwards so I still have to solve the puzzle, might as well fall down first and pick up supers after lowering the platform and climbing back up. You can understand that you cannot skip the puzzle by jumping to the platform anymore. Is there a way to not fall down after picking up supers?
Gu3st
2009-06-23 12:28:35 pm
Jagger ftw
which items are necessary to obtain in wii version?
Oliver
2009-06-23 12:59:40 pm
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
Yeh, the ghetto from the half pipe you mean. I have been trying it everytime I get to this part, ghetto's are still possible but it also involved an L-jump for more distance.

Not exactly that one. I remember watching a youtube video where someone jump above the trigger using some ledges on the very right, down the half-pipe. But I can't remember where I've seen it. He had space jump already, but I guess it could be done without.

Quote from StefanvanDijke:
Is there a way to not fall down after picking up supers?

Not to my knowledge.
I have an idea. You could do the way people do in 100% runs : kill the 2 pirates above with plasma just before picking up super missiles, the 2 cutscenes will play intertwined, scan the post and solve the puzzle right away (maybe kill the other 3 pirates if they really do too much damage), and then climb up and escape.
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-23 01:17:24 pm
Quote from Oliver:
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
Yeh, the ghetto from the half pipe you mean. I have been trying it everytime I get to this part, ghetto's are still possible but it also involved an L-jump for more distance.

Not exactly that one. I remember watching a youtube video where someone jump above the trigger using some ledges on the very right, down the half-pipe. But I can't remember where I've seen it. He had space jump already, but I guess it could be done without.


Thanks I'll try this

Quote:
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
Is there a way to not fall down after picking up supers?

Not to my knowledge.
I have an idea. You could do the way people do in 100% runs : kill the 2 pirates above with plasma just before picking up super missiles, the 2 cutscenes will play intertwined, scan the post and solve the puzzle right away (maybe kill the other 3 pirates if they really do too much damage), and then climb up and escape.


So what is the point of activating both cutscenes at once?
Oliver
2009-06-23 01:23:51 pm
Quote from StefanvanDijke:
So what is the point of activating both cutscenes at once?

Save time (not game time, rather view time). The point to kill the 2 pirates above is to be able to solve the puzzle without having to kill all 5 of them and wait for them to come down.
StefanvanDijke
2009-06-23 01:32:05 pm
Alright the scan point is active once you kill the pirates at the top and they come down once you kill the lower 3 pirates. So it makes sence to kill the pirates on top first. I'll do it as followed:

-enter the room
-kill the pirates at the top
-fall down
-scan
-solve puzzle
-climb back up
-grab supers
-exit room
Oliver
2009-06-23 01:56:20 pm
Perfect. Good luck for your run.

Quote from Gu3st:
which items are necessary to obtain in wii version?

Take a look at Stefan's route.
Gu3st
2009-06-23 04:06:53 pm
Jagger ftw
wasn't there dashes in mp3?
StefanvanDijke
StefanvanDijke
Edit history:
StefanvanDijke: 2009-06-24 10:49:43 am
2009-06-23 06:13:09 pm
In prime 3 there are scan dashes too, but the dashes are very weak and don't give any extra distance. As far as I know in a prime 3 speedrun it is only used once.

Got the first four segments done. Some awefull mistakes but good enough for a test run. And I got the trick to work oliver, thanks for mentioning it!









edit: 5 and 6



Oliver
2009-06-24 12:47:38 pm
Very nice run.
It's a good thing those instant scans. They should have included it in the gamecube version.
Springball is fun too. Cool boosting through magmoor.
About the beetles skip, I had seen it done at the right side whereas you did it at the left side. I don't know which way is faster. Your way seems fine. EDIT : it is fortunate that you found your method because I can't do it on the right side. I'm starting to wonder if I haven't dreamt it.
Can't you skip the parasite queen cutscene in this version ?
Also, what did you do in the start menus in the early segments ? I can't read japanese.
This version will be known as the late space jump version as opposed to SJF  laugh new